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Noire-Ighaan — Less benefits, more money [Premium to Core change]
#endcore2k15 #boycottcorememberships #stopthecore
Published: 2015-08-03 22:45:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 15719; Favourites: 342; Downloads: 39
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Source:www.behance.net/gallery/136783…
After long 22 days DA finally decided to adress CORE Membership matter here What is Core Membership?
Earlier today, DeviantArt released an announcement explaining what "Core Membership Is..." To complement that announcement, I've penned a few of my own thoughts about what Core Membership means to me.
DeviantArt owes its existence to its community. The inspiring, pulsating life force that began 15 years ago with a small group of artists and art appreciators has grown more than anyone could have ever imagined. A true force of motivation and support on the Web, our community is one-of-a-kind in its service to the artistic greater good. And it always has been.
Whether you take the extra moment to answer a Note from a student of art hoping to learn from you, leave a thought-provoking comment on a moving piece of art, or simply watch a deviant, you are invested in your fellow artistic man, and that has all happened naturally from day one. The fact that you're here,
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I asked DA Staff member below, to show me what >exactly< do we get for core membership. As you can guess I didn't get the reply.
The vague "Core Members enjoy the same privileges as the former Premium Members" means nothing, if there is no full list visible on the website, and we can't check it!
It just implies that they will be changing it, and removing some of existing features later. Probably with upcoming userpage revamp.
Why would you remove more lucrative information about skins, widgets and other stuff to replace it with "You get core icon" or very broad term"You help building DA community" (Does this mean, free users are not building the community?)
Sorry, but this is just ridiculous
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www.change.org/p/deviantart-co…
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Comments: 432
According to the actual page explaining the whole deal, you get the core membership and still get to have the old premium benefits as well
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What are we even paying DA for if the site hasn't really been updated much (beyond small/useless/more profit earning features) and they can't even be bothered to stop the RAMPANT art theft on this site?
DA used to be for professionals, and people who were passionate about the arts, and now it's a cheap version of Photobucket.
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Added to a journal if that's ok. michaelmiyamoto.deviantart.com…
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Why is having the "core" simbol next to our name a benefit?
If it's a benefit, having the previous "star" simbol was a benefit aswell... Obvious things are not a benefit, lol
sorry for my english, orz
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No, your English is ok. Sorry for replying so late.
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.....it says right there "Core Members enjoy the same privileges as the former Premium Members"
your own screenshot proves your whole argument invalid.
They just haven't listed it out as plain as before, still the saaaammmee thing
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Omg
I commented on this forever and a half ago
But hurrah! Acknowledgement of the blatant truth X'DD
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I will be so upset if I won't be able to customize my page or use journal skins. :/ I love the ad free browsing, but it isn't enough for me to spend $50+ a year (can't even remember how much it was last time, and I've heard they've raised the prices) for that alone. Ridiculous.
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I don't get why you don't have the freedom of changing your username for free. I mean sure some might use it way too much, but some people want to change their names.
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There should be an ability to change your username free of charge at least once.
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Why can't DeviantART just let people have the ability to change their username at anytime? I really want to change my username to Arthur-Maxwell. (My persona's name, not my real name)
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dude, Dev' been very low on money it costs for premium, i get it, people hate to spend more, hell i couldn't even afford premium as it is because my job sucks atm, but come on, don't kill them over a price change. everything else is at least a valid arrangement.
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They actually got FINE money with people buying premiums :/
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wow they are so nice! Just look at all of these amazing benefits we get! .....nope..
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WOW! I love the new features! That's ingenious!!
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man I'm really hating the new "core" feature like please.
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Czy mi się wydaje, czy te gwiazdki core są dziś większe niż na początku? o.o orig07.deviantart.net/9c58/f/2… (obrazek wzielam z petycji)
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Nie mam pojecia, pierwsze co zrobilam to zainstalowałam plugina Stylish, ktory przywraca stare ikonki :'D
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a moge dostać linka? ;w; bo sweog stylisha zgubiłam przy przeprowadzce do UK xD
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Proszę ^^ userstyles.org/styles/96017/cl…
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dziekuje : D 👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Not like the site is struggling and needs more money to stay afloat to begin with.
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They literally did this to themselves lol
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My hint to you: Read it completely! in the end is written in small form that next to what they give you in the new benifits you get the same old benefits!
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My hint: If you read my comment below the picture, you would know I already did
I talked with DA staff here:
comments.deviantart.com/1/5510…
To this day there is no full list of all the priviledges we get from core membership, and DA staff doesn't want to show it to us.
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I read it and That what you say is vague means that everything that was available for the old premium will be available for core too! Of course they could give more informations but they just didn't had the time! they raised the price to be able to keep the site running. If you didn't got it till now they had many issues. And about your talk with the DA staff. I read his comment. He didn't say that they will remove anything. the opposite! They will add more things in future!
I think you are just complaining about this to be able to complain about anything. I could now let out my inner psychologist and tell you that you shouldn't reflect your self hate on others but I think I let it be.
No really before complaining read everything.
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No, it's definitely the case of 'lack of time' - the first step of pre-testing of 'CORE' membership, was when they changed the icon of beta-testers from an empty star, to "BETA" logo with the same font as the 'CORE' now. It happened around 2-3 weeks ago, I disabled my beta-account after that.
If you are seeking 'hate' in my comments, then you definitely should reflect on your 'inner psychologist', and stop projecting yourself on others. I'm just following the tone of your first comment. I don't hate anyone, and I understand the need of price raise. What I don't understand is the lack of proper annoucement, and communication with userbase, which leads to massive misunderstanding.
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Yes they did mistakes. I didn't deny that. But you also have to admit that they are humans too and making mistakes is in our nature. we are not perfect and they just need to get things into order now. you underhestimate how timeconsuming it is to keep a huge site like this running. They need time to get all that into order now. I read many comments like this but I also red some comments of the staff about how suden this happened. Give them some time. Also you are not forced to buy the core membership. you can just let run out your actual core membership and wait what the future brings.
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the staff just fired 50% of their staff over the fuckups of the other 50%.
if your fuckups doom your website and result in you needing to charge more for the same features, you're fully responsible for your mistakes.
if running the website is so time-consuming, they should not have fired 50% of their staff.
"They're only human" doesn't even come into it. A severe miswording on their account caused many customers to disappear. If you make a mistake you're fully responsible for the mistake.
And alienating your consumers and making them pay nearly twice as much for the same product to try and fill that huge hole in your quota? Honey, that's no longer a mistake, that's going batshit bananas.
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Before I start any conversation with you about how to rate an action of a company (because you have to count DA as one considering to how big it is) I want to ask you if you know why they fired 5ß% of their staff.
Otherwhise this conversation would lead to a point one of us will only whine around (absolutely not me) because he/she doesn't find any valids arguments (I just want to warn you that I never lost an argument)
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Actually, I don't know why they fired 50% of their staff.
In fact, the 50% of the staff that were fired don't even know why they were fired. dxd.deviantart.com/journal/Dea…
Also, it seems you've only been arguing with women and men. Here comes an agender challenger, who isn't a he or a she!
(also im pretty sure you have lost arguments and it's a petty attempt to scare me)
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So you can't say that it were their mistake. Maybe they ha a really good reason for this. You can't say that they are doing bullshit just because you don't like what they are yoing. Sometimes there are good reasons for something even if it seems like bullshit.
Of course they should talk to us. of course they should say what's going on but they decided not to.
That's their right.
Doesn't matter the gender anyway. I once had an interesting discussion with a gay transsexual (means a man in the body of a woman who is gay) and won it.
To be honest yes I lost the one or the other but nothing since I am seventeen. I was in discussion club in school and I made it my hobby to discuss everything out with others just to get what I want.
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They are doing this because they're losing money; and they're losing money because they're alienating their customers and consumers; something that deviantART really shouldn't do at this stage. Ignoring their customers is what landed them into this mess. And it's not a one-off thing; over the approximately 4 years I've been here, there has been little to no indication that deviantART actually listens to its users, customers, and consumers.
"Maybe" and "Sometimes" is some really passive language for someone who apparently hasn't lost an argument since they were 17. Do you really win them? Or do you say you win them?
Do they need to disclose to the community why they fired 50% of their employees? While it should be obvious why, no, not to the community. But they should at the very least explain to the employees that actually lost their jobs why they actually lost their fucking jobs.
It does to me, especially when you use him/her when they is shorter to write and includes everyone.
I know what transgender and transsexual mean; and it's you who doesn't. You've worded who is who poorly, but I'm going to assume you mean a gay trans man.
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first of all I am not born in a country that has english as native language so please excuse my mistakes.
Also I have to say that I rarely have a real discussion in the internet since I normally try to calm others down rather than heating the situation up.
I count it as a win the moment my opponent starts to go into enrage mode. And I said that I didn't lost not that I won. In my opinion nobody looses if they can find a midway.
Now to the main topic.
Of course they should but it is still their right to not say the reasons. I don't say it is right but it is their right.
Is it wrong to keep it a secret what's going on? Yes but it is their decision to do so.
Also (seen as what if scenario) it can still be a good move if they want to bring on something new that nobody else so nobody can steal their idea.
We don't know what's going on and it can give a reason for it or not but it if everyone just boycott their try to survive till they are able to stand on both legs again DA WILL DIE!
And in the end I have to say that dxd himself posted in a comment:
"DeviantArt needs to generate revenue, whether they're right to do it by a price increase here or not is yet to be seen. They are however in need of funds as they are struggling, as evidenced by the cutting of 50% of the paid staff. They're not being greedy, they're broke."
"What is bad is the failure to communicate the change to people and the reasoning why, because it generates drama like this."
They did tell them. A bit late but they did. They just hadn't the money anymore! They couldn't pay the 50% of the staff anymore. How they got chosen is the only mistake made here.
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the problem is that's not really winning the argument. 'winning the argument' is subjective. i count it as whenever your opponent actually sees that you're correct.
It's their right to not say the reasons to the general public, but to fire someone on short notice and not even disclose why to the person that was actually fired is where things start to get stupid. dA has to tell its staff why they were fired and give them some warning that they are being fired.
DeviantART had its chance to fix the community; several years of it. Instead, it chose to ignore its customers and introduce bullshit, convoluted features that today are easily replaced by better ones on their own domains (sta.sh is now practically worthless to me, with google docs for word files and imgur/tumblr for image files), rather than actually give us a decent social art experience. Art thieves stealing 'not real art' run amock, porn floods the front page every few hours,
And of course, the money they were making went right to those features that nobody wanted. It's taken years of suggestions to implement a search feature into one's favourites. It's taken years to edit comments and even then it doesn't work about 72 hours or so after posting it.
It is never, I repeat, never ok to ignore your customers as an online business. If you're losing money you cannot pay for advertisements. If your customers are unsatisfied, they will spread the news to their friends, thus cutting back revenue once again. Ignoring your customers is never a good move, and it doesn't matter if someone's going to 'steal' an idea. No-one in their right minds would want a llama system for their website, nor an arbitrary points system where you need thousands of the buggers to get any actual use from them!
It is also never OK for you to make your customers pay for your negligence of them; which is what CORE membership is designed to do.
Between me making the comment and that being disclosed, there's a large time gap of a number of hours. It's a bit difficult to say "ooh look they did disclose it!!!" when at the time of writing they hadn't. Besides, a moron could figure out that they're broke.
But DeviantART broke themselves. They ignored their customers, introduced arbitrary features, insulted their digital art sector; and eventually customers and potential customers just started getting sick of it and stopped paying for the service. DeviantART has no-one to blame for their own bankruptcy but themselves, for not listening to their users and not providing a decent product; which is what deviantART is.
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You are right it is subjective.
Show me the law that says you have to tell your employee why he gets fired. as long as you don't they are in the right in my eyes. Is it wrong? Yes but I already said it. Is it stupid? Yes of course it is. but they have the right to do it.
To that point I have to say that I am here since 4 years. I don't know how long you have been here but I am not able to say anything about the old DA from before 5 years. everything after that I want to say that I actually didn't spend time using some of the features that were introduced since then since I had more important stuff to do (like learning a job and wroking and gf and other rl things) and so I can't say much about them.
But to say Sta.sh is useless is wrong. I mean I don't use google docs or the others. I have to admit I don't even care for them. Stash is already integrated into DA and makes everything less complicated. I am a writer and I am not using most of the things DA offers to the artists. I hate it that there arent cool features for writers. am I now whining around: WHAAA Why don't you give us writers some cool features like you do for the drawers? No I don't. Just because you don't like the features that are given to you by them you don't need to whine around. I say it again! Core (as well as the previous premium) Membership is not a must! If you don't like it then don't buy it. Your arguments about what they do is bullshit (I'm speaking of the features and sidechanges they do not firing the staff) is invalid because you don't fucking need to use the side. If you don't like it anymore then go away!
I won't say anything about your real art comment because this would lead into another discussion.
Then be happy that they finally introduced it. There are sites that don't have such features till now! do you want to join these sites and say: Buuhh you're bad because you don't give your cusomers this and this feature!
And to the edit button. the time limit was made so nobody says something, someone else answers something and the first change his comment to create problems for the secoond. Seen in facebook several times.
You are repeating yourself at this point.
And to say that nobody wants this is wrong. I mean look at how many use the llama system or doing point comissions.
repeating myself but: YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY IT! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT THEN DON'T BUY IT! It isn't like if they want to use the site then they would need to buy the core membership.
Your first comment to mines is 22 hours ago while dxd's comment is 5 DAYS ago. If you want to say me now that you couldn't have know it as you made one of your comments then you are totally wrong sorry.
Here the comment to proof it: comments.deviantart.com/1/5509…
We had that already I think... (blablabla deviantart didn't listen to his customers blablabla)
But Ok... I would like to know what exactly you mean with arbitrary here since it has different meanings in translation and many of them could fit...
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You know, by my definitions, you appear to be 'raging' right now. Doesn't that mean you lost the argument?
dA is a website that just cut 50% of its staff without any warning that they would be cut away, nor paying compensation, but simply turning so many of its employees' lives upside-down; and gave no reason for why they were being cut. Not if it was an unsatisfactory job or they had to cut the budget. Even if it's not illegal to not tell your staff why they're being fired, it's certainly fucking evil to just cut them off with no warning or reason; and quite frankly, that's just as bad in my books.
The Sta.sh writer works. That's why you're not complaining. It's not that the features are non-functional or glitchy; it's that they're fucking useless if you just do a quick search. Often you'll find something better; something completely free.
CORE membership to dA is, essentially, what 'Free to Play' is to the video game industry; you can try convincing yourself you have a choice, because you don't have to buy it; but the product is near virtually unusable without it. Jimquisition might be able to explain it better: www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqNuS0…
The llama system might be cute, but it's pointless. It adds nothing to the dA experience. And points? What's the point of points if you need a metric fuckton to get basic uses out of them? Especially when you can use PayPal to get real, working money that you can actually use to pay the rent, for food, for electricity, for art supplies, etc? The points system is there to exploit younger deviants who might not know the value of a point; I sure as hell didn't. 500 of the buggers was less than $5!
That's the problem that dA are having in the first place; they've needed to cut their employees and raise prices BECAUSE no-one's buying premium/core membership! Even less are going to buy it now since the price is becoming severely unreasonable for a website that's gone down the shitter.
I shouldn't be 'happy they finally introduced this feature', they should have introduced the features on customer demand LONG before they started losing customers. I mean, other companies that actually listen to their customers and what they want do vastly better than ones that get features that the company wants rather than the consumer. Ignoring your consumers for years on end is business suicide.
Imagine this; two companies are selling toilet fresheners, and the first line of "Lemon", "Orange", and "Jasmine" do really well for both companies.
Both companies get demands from their customers to introduce "Tea", "Mango", and "Rose".
Company A introduces obliges to consumer demand with a slight price increase, and while the customers are a bit annoyed with the increase, overall they're satisfied with the product. Company A flourishes in the toilet freshener industry.
Company B introduces, instead, "Sawdust", "Toenail", and "Freshly Mowed Grass" air fresheners, also adding the price increase. The customers ask when the Tea, Mango, and Rose toilet fresheners are going to come out. Company B introduce "Piano Oil", "Strawberry", and "Dandelion" toilet fresheners. Customers start to grow tired of the company not paying attention to them, start to ignore the company and move to the one that actually listens to its customers, and Company B crashes and burns.
See? The relationship between the consumer and the company is VERY important; and deviantART have neglected theirs. It's resulted in a price increase, a severe drop in staff numbers, and it's the beginning of the end for this godforsaken website.
I take it you have no idea how a business is supposed to work.
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first of all I am sorry for the late reply I had some rl stuff to manage (like searching for a new job)
You think I'm raging just because I try to keep my answers short? Raging is if someone doesn't care anymore for what have been said and just gives answers like our lovely JetOr did (if you remember him)
I repeat myself when I say that I am the same oppinion in this point.
I've never tried out sta.sh writer since... I dunno why not. So I can't say anything about that.
Can't see the video for some unknown reason... Well to your comment. I know many free to play games and I know very well that you can play them mostly without paying for it. You are speaking of the so called pay to win, what is if you pay money you get stuff other users won't and so you get faster to a point others won't.
Even though that you don't need the stuff from pay to win to get to that certain point, it just needs more time to get there.
long story short: I played some free to play games and in one of them I am pretty good and I don't pay for even one of the extra features.
you know that most parts of the world uses metric system right? also what does the metric system have to do with points here and why should it be bad to work with metric system (what is actually the best working system)
never the less points is just one way for DA to get money and it works. people are buying points. it is a da internal currency. people buy and use it to trade... why not? yes you can use paypal and some are but some seem to prefere points.
And I know some deviants that are since 10 years on the site still using points.
well you can't say nobody baught premium. nearly the half of my watchlist are core and still many are core members. They will lose many but to say nobody will buy now core membership is wrong. I know that there are even groups that are for core membership and many of them will buy it to save da.
to this whole buissness thing I have one question: Why is microsoft then still on top?
You are implying that there won't come new customers that might like the other introduced things not caring for the things that still don't get introduced.
You maybe don't know the most important thing about buisness: the more you offer the more you sell!
to the very end I want to say that I might not answer the next day's since I have some RL stuff to do like finding a new job and visiting my granny in hospital and things like this.
But I will answer...
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im sorry but the language barrier is too big. i can't understand you well enough. it might be because i got this message at 10:30pm when I also have shit to do (TAFE).
"can't see the video" "goes on to describe what's in the video"
the point of the matter is, dA is doing what most 'free to play' games do; they pit your patience and interest against your wallet.
you are aware, as an australian (something you could take a passing glance at my page and find out), i use the metric system too? "a metric fuckton" is a figure of speech.
whether people are buying them or not (and most people who are buying points are dA's senior staff or needy little shits between 13 and 17 who still have access to their parent's credit card accounts), the points system is still incredibly flawed and, ultimately, useless once you figure out how to use PayPal. Have you ever tried paying a power bill with dA points? you'd be laughed at and have the plug pulled before you could say "llama badge"!
Yes, little Johnny. There are people who buy points after 10 years of using dA. We call these "Senior Members". i.e people who kiss dA's ass and think they can do no wrong while fuckups occur all around them.
People bought premium before it went CORE. Once CORE was introduced, everyone was immediately disgusted, and most of them cancelled their plans.
unfortunately, if just a small minority of people actually give enough rats' asses about dA at this point to purchase a CORE membership, it's not going to be a high enough price to pull the website out of debt.
Microsoft is on top because surprisingly, it does listen to its customers. That, and it has a fucking functional operating system with features that do what they're supposed to. It has features its customers wanted, and built upon those features to create something that everyone was able to use. The only way you could reasonably compare Microsoft to dA is via the green colourschemes for dA and the Xbox.
You have to be offering something good for it to sell. That's why E.T for the Atari 2600 crashed the gaming industry in the 1980s.
You also have to listen to your fucking customers:
and not charge them extra for your own fucking mistakes.
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