Comments: 64
Eurwentala In reply to ??? [2021-05-05 18:28:56 +0000 UTC]
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Stykomolok2 [2020-02-06 15:28:14 +0000 UTC]
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Snell35Damzel [2019-08-03 02:00:20 +0000 UTC]
Cool art
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TheSirenLord [2019-05-07 23:47:21 +0000 UTC]
I wonder why it went extinct if it could coexist with humans
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Eurwentala In reply to TheSirenLord [2019-05-12 10:29:16 +0000 UTC]
Coexisting with humans for a few thousand years does not mean that humans couldn't have rendered the species extinct in the end. It seems quite a few now-extinct megafaunal species did manage to survive with humans for a time, but something (perhaps human population growth, cultural changes, accumulating inbreeding, introduced species, or a change in climate) finally tipped them over the edge. Madagascar's elephant birds and giant lemurs seem to be another example, and the last Megaloceros on the Ural mountains. In Europe, the aurochs finally went extinct as late as in the 1600s, after 30 000 years of coexistence.
I'm not familiar with the subtleties of South American Holocene climate, but it seems there was also a period of unstable rainfalls around this time, which might have played a role. Personally, I highly doubt climate changes alone were responsible for most or any of Late Pleistocene megafaunal extinctions, since the species had already survived to many drastic climatic shifts with apparently little trouble. But as an additional stress to an already endangered population, it might have been important.
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TheSirenLord In reply to Eurwentala [2019-05-12 11:36:47 +0000 UTC]
It probably was a combination of many things
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adam-ant2 [2018-05-27 14:27:33 +0000 UTC]
This is a beautiful painting.
It's a shame there are no horses (no naturally evolved species, anyway) in South America in the present day.
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Philoceratops [2018-04-15 12:59:52 +0000 UTC]
This guy and PliohippusΒ have competition...
I love this guy so much! My favorite recontruction of this animal!
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ClassyBoogeyman [2018-04-04 13:44:28 +0000 UTC]
He could go on to become a great Muppet π
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Eurwentala In reply to Zimices [2018-03-28 17:22:14 +0000 UTC]
Thanks! I'm actually working on a set of ALL extinct Late Pleistocene and Holocene equids. It's very interesting, but more than a bit frustrating since the taxonomy is such a mess. Do you have an informed opinion which Amerhippus species are actually valid? For now, I went for one plains taxon (lasallei/neogeus) and one mountain taxon (andium/insulatus).
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Zimices In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-29 08:35:01 +0000 UTC]
Hehe, Β I've seen some of them Respect to "Amerhippus", is true that the taxonomy is very confusing. I've read two recent works about this: the article made by Machado et a, 2017 based in autopodial elements that considers that all the South American Equus species are really one, E. neogeus. The other one is a book also published in 2017, Fossil Horses of South America by Alberdi and Prado; they made analysis based in both dental as skeletal features and concluded that there are three valid species, the largest one with slender metapodals, E. neogeus (including E. lasallei), a small mountain form with short limbs, E. andium and finally another small form, E. insulatus (including E. santaelenae, which is the only one that I've seen with a complete skeleton). Also they sunk Onohippidion in Hippidion. They mention some overlap in measurements of phalanges between the Equus species (particulary between E. neogeus and E. insulatus), and that from morphological characters they are difficult to separate.
I think that your approach is good, with two morphotypes, one large and other smaller, although both are not mutually exclusive from mountain and plains zones... "E. lasallei" lived in a savanna in the middle of the Colombian Andes, and E. insulatus is recorded in a plain site, Mene de Inciarte in Venezuela.
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Eurwentala In reply to Zimices [2018-03-29 14:22:43 +0000 UTC]
Thanks for the reply! I read Machado et al 2017, but was a bit doubtful about the validity of using just autopodial elements for species recognition. The book chapter I could not obtain. I'm guessing only full genomes could give the final answer (and it would no doubt be surprising!). Maybe I'll look up the skull of E. santaelenae and add it to the set, just to be sure.
About Hippidion/Onohippidion - along with the presence or absence of the fossa, another significant difference seems to be the position of the nasal bones, either high over the nose )as reconstructed here) or much lower. However, I'm fairly sure that's just taphonomy. It would be nice to know which was the position on life. It has really significant impact on what the animal looked like.
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herofan135 [2018-03-16 10:02:20 +0000 UTC]
So awesome, great restoration here.
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gdog00 [2018-03-13 14:18:42 +0000 UTC]
I wouldn't eat horses, seeing how I like to ride em. But it's a shame that these ones were hunted into extinction. Along with Dusicyon Avus.
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Eurwentala In reply to gdog00 [2018-03-13 16:10:35 +0000 UTC]
Yeah. Along with caballoid horses, Macrauchenia, Cuvieronius, Toxodon, and many other South American wonders.
Eating animals considered friends feels wrong, but in a way, it's a lot more ethical. At least where I live, horses are not raised for meat, but are only occasionally eaten after living a decent life as riding or sports animals.
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gdog00 In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-13 16:38:38 +0000 UTC]
Not to mention large herbivores are also essential to ecosystem services like seed dispersal.
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Eurwentala In reply to gdog00 [2018-03-15 08:27:30 +0000 UTC]
Yes! And keeping the landscape open. In Finland, we have a huge problem with conserving the flora and fauna that originally lived in Ice Age grasslands and then moved into traditional pasturelands. Now there's no wild big grazers and almost no traditionally kept livestock. The whole rural landscape has changed in a matter of decades, and thousands of species are endangered.
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acepredator In reply to Eurwentala [2018-04-21 18:33:10 +0000 UTC]
This so much.
And the worst part is, nobody sees the problem because of shifting baseline syndrome
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Eurwentala In reply to acepredator [2018-04-22 07:42:23 +0000 UTC]
Yes! I recently interviewed a fair number of Finnish conservation experts about the possibilities of rewilding, and was surprised to see just how sceptical they all were. Many said even trying out whether bison or horses in a fenced area is unnecessary, even though everyone agrees we have some 1800 endangered mammoth steppe species, most of which are going extinct with current management.
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acepredator In reply to Eurwentala [2018-04-22 18:48:42 +0000 UTC]
When even the βexpertsβ are fooled by shifting baseline syndrome....sigh
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gdog00 In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-15 13:58:57 +0000 UTC]
Yeah! And the only large herbivore left in Finland is the moose (although i think theyβre called elk in Europe). However, if I recall correctly caribou, muskoxen, aurochs, wisents, and wild horses all once lived on Scandanavian grasslands. All of these (with the exception of the aurochs, since itβs extinct) can be reintroduced.Β
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Eurwentala In reply to gdog00 [2018-03-15 19:26:34 +0000 UTC]
Well, if you count caribou (or reindeer), we do have those. And white-tailed deer imported from the US, and also red deer and a small amount of fallow deer. But those are all browsers thay don't really create grasslands like grazers do. That, and they are kept in reasonably small densities because they cause tons of traffic accidents and damage to commercial forestry.
Reintroduction of big grazers has been suggested, but the thing that makes it slightly more complicated is that we have zero actual evidence of any of those species in Finland. There are bone finds from Sweden, Denmark, and Estonia - so basically all around us - but not in Finland. It's of course more than likely some or all of those species did once live in this area, but it's hard to argue without any finds.
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gdog00 In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-15 21:21:08 +0000 UTC]
Well Since weβre talking about Scandanavia in general, I guess itβs likely those species were found in Finland. Which fossils of the species I mentioned were found in Sweden and Denmark?Β
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Eurwentala In reply to gdog00 [2018-03-16 18:44:31 +0000 UTC]
Yep, quite likely they were. It makes it harder to argue that, though. Especially since the Swedish finds are generally from Southern Sweden: the part that is further south than any part of Finland. The closest megafaunal grazer bone locations on the same _latitudes_ as Finland are pretty far east in Siberia, with a lot drier climate. It could, theoretically, be argued that Finnish cold but rainy climate and/or thick coniferous forests were not and are not suitable for megafauna. Of course, it's more likely the bones have been simply destroyed by glaciations and our unusually acidic soil. However, those who are sceptical towards rewilding (which is apparently everyone, according to a set of interviews I did recently) can still easily argue there's no proof they are native fauna.
The only exception here is the woolly mammoth. Finland has about ten isolated mammoth bone findings. But the mammoth cannot be reintroduced, since it's extinct.
I think there were aurochs, wisent, and horses in Southern Sweden and at least horses in Estonia during the Holocene (probably the others too, I haven't looked into it). There still are musk oxen in Norway, though those have been introduced from North America. And pretty much the whole set of Ice Age megafauna is found in Denmark, but Denmark is geographically closer to countries like Germany than other Scandinavian countries, so that's no surprise.
Caribou - or reindeer - are present as two subspecies: the Finnish forest reindeer, and the mountain reindeer. Both are endangered, but the semi-domesticated form of mountain reindeer (you know, the sort that pulls Santa's sled) is absolutely everywhere in the northern regions, to the point of severe overgrazing in some areas.
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gdog00 In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-16 18:54:36 +0000 UTC]
Have the domestic hybridized with the wild?
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AustralianMarcus [2018-03-12 12:00:33 +0000 UTC]
Iβm now curious about what it tasted like
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Eurwentala In reply to AustralianMarcus [2018-03-12 15:27:09 +0000 UTC]
Apparently so good people ate them all. I'd guess a combination of horse and moose (or other gamey forest ungulates).
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AustralianMarcus In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-12 15:30:45 +0000 UTC]
Never tried horse but moose is alright (mouth begins drawling)
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Tarturus [2018-03-12 05:51:00 +0000 UTC]
There were quite a lot of fascinating creatures that only died out quite recently (well, "recently" on a geological timescale).
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Eurwentala In reply to Tarturus [2018-03-12 15:28:04 +0000 UTC]
Agreed! I'm working on a set of (all?) extinct equids that lived late enough to meet modern humans.
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Bealmeister [2018-03-12 05:27:34 +0000 UTC]
Now this is an example of "Hey fella! Why the long face?"
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acepredator [2018-03-11 23:00:35 +0000 UTC]
Time to de-extinct. If we have genetic material...
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acepredator In reply to acepredator [2018-03-11 23:01:35 +0000 UTC]
And sigh... yet another Anthropocene casualty
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Eurwentala In reply to acepredator [2018-03-11 23:28:02 +0000 UTC]
There's a surprising number of equid casualties. I keep finding new Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene species. Though some of those might be synonymous, since their taxonomy is still messy.
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EdenKeeper72 [2018-03-11 22:48:22 +0000 UTC]
I sometimes wonder if some of these things are birth defects rather then a species.Β
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Eurwentala In reply to EdenKeeper72 [2018-03-11 23:20:54 +0000 UTC]
I'm sure it's entirely possible to mistake a birth defect for a new species. In this case, it doesn't seem likely, since there are three known species of Hipparion, and I think multiple skulls.
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EdenKeeper72 In reply to Eurwentala [2018-03-12 02:03:30 +0000 UTC]
True, there could be multiple examples of birth defects as well, hard to say. It`s whyΒ eereΒ on the side of caution with extinct animalsΒ Β
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Dontknowwhattodraw94 [2018-03-11 22:42:53 +0000 UTC]
I didn't know horses were doing other things in their evolution than becoming as cursorial as possible. Nice!
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